You’ve got a new message!
I was talking about Kmail icons just two posts ago. Well that was already more than 7 months ago (scary!). Anyway, I did a lot of work on Kmail actions, and basically got the final version of the icons. Anyway, some of them may change a little in next months. Some will need to be opimized as action icons (like “print” and “save”) and other may have some beautification improvement (like “delete”).
Action icons have been optimized to look just perfect at 32×32 pixel (the big size) and 22×22 (the small size). In order to do that I had to do 2 different icons, but I’ll talk about that on another post. Ah, if it was 24×24 instead of 22×22 it would be easier. But let’s have a look to the screenshots: Below you can see how default toolbar (on Kubuntu) looks with the new icons:
I don’t use the mail preview pane, so I don’t need on the main toolbar none of the following icons: “print”, “save”, “next and previous unread message”. Those would make more sense on the single message window for me. I think the “File” menu is more than enough for those.
Below there you can see the inbox and outbox folder. I used a 64×64 SVG document in order to get a perfect looking 16×16:
Some thoughts:
I don’t use the mail preview pane, so I don’t need all these icon on the main toolbar. I specially don’t need “print”, “save”, “next and previous unread message”. “File” menu is more than enough for those.
I was also thinking if we could get rid of the “search” action by implementing all-inclusive search bar without the need of an extra dialog window (and so no need to an icon on the toolbar).Activating the text under icon toolbar view, I saw that in Kmail, and probably in many other KDE applications, the action label looks more like a full description of the action. That’s make the “text under icons” view useless, since nobody would keep a toolbar that look like that:
Because of the long labels, a very useful feature (specially when you want new users to get used soon to a new environment) bacame useless.Here there are some proposal for shorter labels:
- New message could be write or compose
- Save as could be just save
- Check mail in could be just Check or Get
- Previous/Next unread message should be just Previous/Next
- Move To Trash could be Delete or Trash
If the label were short I think that “text under icons” toolbar should be set as default.
Seems that’s longest post ever from me!
ooh! pretty!
I agree that the text needs some changes and think that you are on the right track with these proposals! Thank you!
The new icons look great! I couldn’t agree more about the long labels. I actually prefer to have the text below icons (my brain seems to work better with the textual clues). In KDE 3, the long labels have been a problem for me, often pushing icons right off the screen, and forcing me to cut back on the number of icons I can have in my toolbars. It seems best to condense all the labels down to one word or two short words; all we need are clues as to what the button does, not necessarily a verbose description.
One icon I also placed on my kmail toolbar is the ‘ignore thread’ icon. Which, next to the “move to trash” icon looks very similar and I kept pressing the wrong one :)
I replaced the “move to trash” on my kmail with the ‘empty trash’ icon.
How come you’re using a 64×64 canvas for the 16×16 icons and not, say, I don’t know 16×16 or something like that?
Regarding labels, check Thunderbird out, they seems to got the verbs right.
Keep up the nice work.
Louis: Your position on the text is exactly the same I describe on the post :)
For KDE 4 “Text under Icons” is the default setting, so i suppose they are working on shortening the labels…
Andreas:
You are right to say that it should be the same working on a 16×16 or a 64×64 canvas. But that’s not really what happen. I really need a larger document canvas to do things right.
When I started adopting this technique I proposed to use a 88×88 icon to get perfect looking 22×22 icons. My friend Pinheiro said that we could get the same result by doing the icon directly on a 22×22 canvas. So we took one icon that was ready, scaled it down to 22×22 on the SVG. Well, rendering the PNG produced different results, and somehow, the one rendered from the bigger canvas was looking better.
Agreed, one word only for the text under the icons and a complete description in the tooltip. Hope the new HIG will make things clear. A smaller font (as in OSX) would also help a lot.
David, that’s right, I was just supporting your argument :-) Also, as AC says, I changed the font so I could squeeze more in, but it’s hard to find a good font that is very readable when sized very small.
Another possibility would be to have the label on 2 lines if they are too big. The max size of a line should be calculated from the icon size. For example a text label shouldn’t be 3 times longer than the icon.
The search bar should be definitely included into almost any text field. There is bug #93439 about that, unfortunately several KDE developers do not agree that it is that usable and useful, and prefer to have other search technologies (for example in konqueror).
David, unfortunately the new icons do not distinguish inbox and outbox as clearly as the old ones. The rest of them look great though!
I don’t understand whoever thought that text under icons and fewer icons was a good idea. If you don’t know what an icon does, look at the tooltip. And the more power is directly exposed in the toolbar without tedious menus, the better.
Great Work, icon rocks and oxygen is clear spousing usability.
I just think: the “save icon” is a lovable “old stylish” diskette! ( I like :-) it ).
Maybe too much old-style. But, I know: I am not constructive. I can’t give you an idea for the replacement.
First I proposed myself a “moneysaver” (salvadanaio) but this idea really sucks. It is really difficoult find a compromise between beauty and usability!
But if you have a minute to waste, think if it’s a good idea replace the “save” icon.
Thank you (and Nuno) for your beautiful work.
It’s very nice to see sharp, clear and easy to distinguish icons with 32×32, 22×22 and 16×16 sizes.
These are the icon sizes I use 95% of the time (@2560×1024). The only exception are my desktop icons (64×64) but they’re covered most of the time anyway.
The Oxygen icons are big improvement compared to the blurry blue something most Crystal icons are at small sizes (Konqueror, Quanta, KSysguard, Kate etc. => hard to distinguish at a short look, not very intuitive).
I’m really looking forward to it, thanks for your great work!
Interesting thing about the mandated shadow for action icons…
I actually like the shadows when looking on single, freestanding icon, but when they all lined up, the identical shadow produces a “rendering glitch” effect.
It seems it actually detracts from the quality of the view. How about altering the shadow based on the subject or, actually dropping it?
Nice work! I agree about the general interface changes.
What’s the icon between the clipboard and the lock in the middle screenshot? I’m looking up close and I can’t even imagine…
I also like the icon text but, call me crazy, I use the ‘Text Alongside Icons’ option and think it looks great: http://exogen.case.edu/konq_toolbar.png
I think 24×24 icons are easier to identify and just plain better looking — GNOME has been using this size for a long time, and I think KDE 4 should do the same. Perhaps you can convince KDE devs to make the default icon size 24×24 :)
@text icons: E-mail clients in Gnome(Evolution) and Windows (Outlook) use as default “Selective text on right” where selective means text alongside the following icons:
* Send and receive (or whatever its name is)
* New mail
* Send
Bug on this matter: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=75970
Please please PLEASE make the previous and next message icons point UP and DOWN, not left and right. Our lists are vertical, so why do our icons point horizontally?
I generally like it, but there are some elements that need some improvements:
1. I also don’t like this old stylish diskette metaphor for “save” actions. I think that Tango Project have better metaphor for this action: check http://tinyurl.com/yh7n7t
2. Inbox and outbox are too similar; specially in the small size
3. Why are we still using this ugly “X” icon for “move to trash” and “delete” action? It’s ugly and simple not intuitive. I just never know if this icon will move my files/messages etc. to trash or delete them. “Trash” and something similar to this: http://tinyurl.com/y5koek would be far better
4. Scissors and clipboard are too dark. What about people who prefer dark colors for their desktops? Maybe it would be better to have scissors with red/green/blue handle and silver blade and something close to #D75B1E for clipboard?
5. I have absolutely no idea what action stand behind this weird icon between clipboard and encrypted icons. And I think I’m not the only one, so make it better, please.
6. Action icon for clear the text field is IMHO too shiny
And something a little off topic:
Shyru: what do you mean that “text under icons” would be default for KDE4? If icons need signs, it simple means that those icons just ain’t good enough. Adding text under icons in default configuration it’s IMHO very bad idea. And if someone need a clue, we have tooltips already and most user know how to use them.
Microsoft don’t use icons with text anymore in Vista and OSX use it only in a few apps (and definitely not in Finder). Only GNOME still use “text under icons” by default, but also, not everywher. It’s probably the worst nightmare to start KDE4 for the 1st time and see konqueror (working as file manager) with text under icons. Please, I beg you KDE4 developers, don’t do it!
Boski:
This post was about kmail icons, so many of the icons you critizice are not final but just draft, but let’s go.
“X” in Oxygen means only delete. We have another symbol to mean “cancel” and another one to mean “stop”. Said that, I don’t want to change delete icon only because is refered to a mail, or to a file or to a device. Delete will be represented everywhere in Oxygen by the X symbol. The icon you point to is not intuitive at all IMHO.
About your comment to Shyru: What you say make no sense, I hope gnome will put text under icons, or nobody will get the Save and Delete icons you linked :) well, they will after waiting the icon descprition popping out. Also, I think, some application need to have text under icons, not all. So web broweser do not need that for instance.
For what it is worth for the last four years or so I have been running KMail with text under icons. I usually remove Previous/Next Unread Message because they are so long but keep the rest.
This is in response to Anon (comment number 17)
If you look at the Gnome icons they are not really 24×24 as the pic itself is 22×22 and there is a pixel padding around it. Just thought I should mention that.
Kwwii, yep, we went with 22×22 as KDE used that size. Currently we’re generating 22×22 to 24×24, but hope to be able to go all 22×22 soon.
David:
First of all, I’m aware that they are not final icons. I only wanted to give some feedback, because, despite my critics, I really like Oxygen and can’t wait for final version:
A.D. 1. Ok, ok. Maybe I’m not entirely objective in this, because I still know lots of people who actually use real diskettes and it’s drive me crazy, everytime they complain that I don’t have disk drive on my computer;).
A.D. 3. But how about diference between “move to trash” and “delete”? For example in Konqueror I use both: Move to trash and delete actions. And I would be really unhappy If I delete something instead of moving it to trash (from which I can get my files back, when I change my mind).
Anyway, Keep up the good work. many people count on you, guys.
Boski:
About 3) I forgot to mention that. This still a pre-alfa idea. “X” means delete. As default delete will trash stuff, so not really delete for ever, let’s say a “soft delete”. Almost everywhere you’ll see just see this “soft delete” action. In the few cases both actions will be shown together, both icons will be an X, what changes is the color. Red for the soft deletion, dark grey for the hard deletion. The intent is also to have users easily locate the red one which is safer as you can imagine.
But that’s my idea, that’s may change. We will discuss this with the usability guys. The only think I would like is to use the same symbol everywhere, so if it will be a Trash instead of an X, every icon meaning deletion of something will be rapresented by this trash icon. I support the X because is simple and will look good at any size, is easily recognizible from far for everybody. But I can understand who will say that since deleted items go into a trash icon, having a trash icon as action would be better.
Anyway, keep checking in the future, will blog about that in the future.
Thank for your comments.
David
I think distignuishing trash and delete only by color is dangerous, because there are colorblind people.
@ Arne
that’s already changed on SVN, Now we have a real trash for “trashing” and a red X for deleting.
Great!
Another option would be to add a small Trash behind the “X” for ‘move to trash’ and a second “X” (or some explosion or so) behind the “X” for ‘delete’?
Many thanks for your work!