Comments on: You’ve got a new message! http://davigno.oxygen-icons.org/2007/01/11/youve-got-a-new-message/ Life and thoughts of a vector graphics artist committed to open source. Wed, 19 Nov 2008 11:43:48 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Arne Babenhauserheide http://davigno.oxygen-icons.org/2007/01/11/youve-got-a-new-message/#comment-922 Arne Babenhauserheide Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:00:42 +0000 http://oxygen-icons.org/users/david/?p=31#comment-922 Great! Another option would be to add a small Trash behind the "X" for 'move to trash' and a second "X" (or some explosion or so) behind the "X" for 'delete'? Many thanks for your work! Great!

Another option would be to add a small Trash behind the “X” for ‘move to trash’ and a second “X” (or some explosion or so) behind the “X” for ‘delete’?

Many thanks for your work!

]]> By: david http://davigno.oxygen-icons.org/2007/01/11/youve-got-a-new-message/#comment-883 david Tue, 13 Mar 2007 16:38:13 +0000 http://oxygen-icons.org/users/david/?p=31#comment-883 @ Arne that's already changed on SVN, Now we have a real trash for "trashing" and a red X for deleting. @ Arne

that’s already changed on SVN, Now we have a real trash for “trashing” and a red X for deleting.

]]> By: Arne Babenhauserheide http://davigno.oxygen-icons.org/2007/01/11/youve-got-a-new-message/#comment-881 Arne Babenhauserheide Tue, 13 Mar 2007 16:29:54 +0000 http://oxygen-icons.org/users/david/?p=31#comment-881 I think distignuishing trash and delete only by color is dangerous, because there are colorblind people. I think distignuishing trash and delete only by color is dangerous, because there are colorblind people.

]]> By: david http://davigno.oxygen-icons.org/2007/01/11/youve-got-a-new-message/#comment-113 david Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:23:15 +0000 http://oxygen-icons.org/users/david/?p=31#comment-113 <strong>Boski:</strong> About 3) I forgot to mention that. This still a pre-alfa idea. "X" means delete. As default delete will trash stuff, so not really delete for ever, let's say a "soft delete". Almost everywhere you'll see just see this "soft delete" action. In the few cases both actions will be shown together, both icons will be an X, what changes is the color. Red for the soft deletion, dark grey for the hard deletion. The intent is also to have users easily locate the red one which is safer as you can imagine. But that's my idea, that's may change. We will discuss this with the usability guys. The only think I would like is to use the same symbol everywhere, so if it will be a Trash instead of an X, every icon meaning deletion of something will be rapresented by this trash icon. I support the X because is simple and will look good at any size, is easily recognizible from far for everybody. But I can understand who will say that since deleted items go into a trash icon, having a trash icon as action would be better. Anyway, keep checking in the future, will blog about that in the future. Thank for your comments. David Boski:
About 3) I forgot to mention that. This still a pre-alfa idea. “X” means delete. As default delete will trash stuff, so not really delete for ever, let’s say a “soft delete”. Almost everywhere you’ll see just see this “soft delete” action. In the few cases both actions will be shown together, both icons will be an X, what changes is the color. Red for the soft deletion, dark grey for the hard deletion. The intent is also to have users easily locate the red one which is safer as you can imagine.

But that’s my idea, that’s may change. We will discuss this with the usability guys. The only think I would like is to use the same symbol everywhere, so if it will be a Trash instead of an X, every icon meaning deletion of something will be rapresented by this trash icon. I support the X because is simple and will look good at any size, is easily recognizible from far for everybody. But I can understand who will say that since deleted items go into a trash icon, having a trash icon as action would be better.

Anyway, keep checking in the future, will blog about that in the future.
Thank for your comments.

David

]]> By: Boski http://davigno.oxygen-icons.org/2007/01/11/youve-got-a-new-message/#comment-112 Boski Fri, 12 Jan 2007 16:44:30 +0000 http://oxygen-icons.org/users/david/?p=31#comment-112 David: First of all, I'm aware that they are not final icons. I only wanted to give some feedback, because, despite my critics, I really like Oxygen and can't wait for final version: A.D. 1. Ok, ok. Maybe I'm not entirely objective in this, because I still know lots of people who actually use real diskettes and it's drive me crazy, everytime they complain that I don't have disk drive on my computer;). A.D. 3. But how about diference between "move to trash" and "delete"? For example in Konqueror I use both: Move to trash and delete actions. And I would be really unhappy If I delete something instead of moving it to trash (from which I can get my files back, when I change my mind). Anyway, Keep up the good work. many people count on you, guys. David:
First of all, I’m aware that they are not final icons. I only wanted to give some feedback, because, despite my critics, I really like Oxygen and can’t wait for final version:
A.D. 1. Ok, ok. Maybe I’m not entirely objective in this, because I still know lots of people who actually use real diskettes and it’s drive me crazy, everytime they complain that I don’t have disk drive on my computer;).

A.D. 3. But how about diference between “move to trash” and “delete”? For example in Konqueror I use both: Move to trash and delete actions. And I would be really unhappy If I delete something instead of moving it to trash (from which I can get my files back, when I change my mind).

Anyway, Keep up the good work. many people count on you, guys.

]]> By: Andreas Nilsson http://davigno.oxygen-icons.org/2007/01/11/youve-got-a-new-message/#comment-111 Andreas Nilsson Fri, 12 Jan 2007 16:31:38 +0000 http://oxygen-icons.org/users/david/?p=31#comment-111 Kwwii, yep, we went with 22x22 as KDE used that size. Currently we're generating 22x22 to 24x24, but hope to be able to go all 22x22 soon. Kwwii, yep, we went with 22×22 as KDE used that size. Currently we’re generating 22×22 to 24×24, but hope to be able to go all 22×22 soon.

]]> By: kwwii http://davigno.oxygen-icons.org/2007/01/11/youve-got-a-new-message/#comment-110 kwwii Fri, 12 Jan 2007 15:43:17 +0000 http://oxygen-icons.org/users/david/?p=31#comment-110 This is in response to Anon (comment number 17) If you look at the Gnome icons they are not really 24x24 as the pic itself is 22x22 and there is a pixel padding around it. Just thought I should mention that. This is in response to Anon (comment number 17)

If you look at the Gnome icons they are not really 24×24 as the pic itself is 22×22 and there is a pixel padding around it. Just thought I should mention that.

]]> By: Benjamin Meyer http://davigno.oxygen-icons.org/2007/01/11/youve-got-a-new-message/#comment-109 Benjamin Meyer Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:20:19 +0000 http://oxygen-icons.org/users/david/?p=31#comment-109 For what it is worth for the last four years or so I have been running KMail with text under icons. I usually remove Previous/Next Unread Message because they are so long but keep the rest. For what it is worth for the last four years or so I have been running KMail with text under icons. I usually remove Previous/Next Unread Message because they are so long but keep the rest.

]]> By: david http://davigno.oxygen-icons.org/2007/01/11/youve-got-a-new-message/#comment-108 david Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:38:29 +0000 http://oxygen-icons.org/users/david/?p=31#comment-108 <strong>Boski:</strong> This post was about kmail icons, so many of the icons you critizice are not final but just draft, but let's go. <ol> <li>Won't reply to this since we'll decide that with the KDE Human-Computer-Interface working group. But I can tell you it would never be something like that icon you linked. For me that icon means Download to hard disk, it's really the worst idea I ever seen for SAVE</li> <li>This is going to change, they are indeed similar, and since they will be only seen at small size they would better look different.</li> <li>I desagree with you. That X means "delete". In current KDE icon theme, "X" is used to everyting: STOP, DELETE, CANCEL. "X" in Oxygen means only delete. We have another symbol to mean "cancel" and another one to mean "stop". Said that, I don't want to change delete icon only because is refered to a mail, or to a file or to a device. Delete will be represented everywhere in Oxygen by the X symbol. The icon you point to is not intuitive at all IMHO.</li> <li>Ok, these are not final at all, the design is good IMHO, I already told Nuno to change colors. He'll do that before Oxygen is released.</li> <li>True, that icon suck, and is also pretty old, again, this icon still a draft icon.</li> <li>Maybe it is.</li> </ol> About your comment to Shyru: What you say make no sense, I hope gnome will put text under icons, or nobody will get the Save and Delete icons you linked :) well, they will after waiting the icon descprition popping out. Also, I think, some application need to have text under icons, not all. So web broweser do not need that for instance. Boski:
This post was about kmail icons, so many of the icons you critizice are not final but just draft, but let’s go.

  1. Won’t reply to this since we’ll decide that with the KDE Human-Computer-Interface working group. But I can tell you it would never be something like that icon you linked. For me that icon means Download to hard disk, it’s really the worst idea I ever seen for SAVE
  2. This is going to change, they are indeed similar, and since they will be only seen at small size they would better look different.
  3. I desagree with you. That X means “delete”. In current KDE icon theme, “X” is used to everyting: STOP, DELETE, CANCEL.
    “X” in Oxygen means only delete. We have another symbol to mean “cancel” and another one to mean “stop”. Said that, I don’t want to change delete icon only because is refered to a mail, or to a file or to a device. Delete will be represented everywhere in Oxygen by the X symbol. The icon you point to is not intuitive at all IMHO.
  4. Ok, these are not final at all, the design is good IMHO, I already told Nuno to change colors. He’ll do that before Oxygen is released.
  5. True, that icon suck, and is also pretty old, again, this icon still a draft icon.
  6. Maybe it is.

About your comment to Shyru: What you say make no sense, I hope gnome will put text under icons, or nobody will get the Save and Delete icons you linked :) well, they will after waiting the icon descprition popping out. Also, I think, some application need to have text under icons, not all. So web broweser do not need that for instance.

]]> By: Boski http://davigno.oxygen-icons.org/2007/01/11/youve-got-a-new-message/#comment-107 Boski Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:14:05 +0000 http://oxygen-icons.org/users/david/?p=31#comment-107 I generally like it, but there are some elements that need some improvements: 1. I also don't like this old stylish diskette metaphor for "save" actions. I think that Tango Project have better metaphor for this action: check http://tinyurl.com/yh7n7t 2. Inbox and outbox are too similar; specially in the small size 3. Why are we still using this ugly "X" icon for "move to trash" and "delete" action? It's ugly and simple not intuitive. I just never know if this icon will move my files/messages etc. to trash or delete them. "Trash" and something similar to this: http://tinyurl.com/y5koek would be far better 4. Scissors and clipboard are too dark. What about people who prefer dark colors for their desktops? Maybe it would be better to have scissors with red/green/blue handle and silver blade and something close to #D75B1E for clipboard? 5. I have absolutely no idea what action stand behind this weird icon between clipboard and encrypted icons. And I think I'm not the only one, so make it better, please. 6. Action icon for clear the text field is IMHO too shiny And something a little off topic: Shyru: what do you mean that "text under icons" would be default for KDE4? If icons need signs, it simple means that those icons just ain't good enough. Adding text under icons in default configuration it's IMHO very bad idea. And if someone need a clue, we have tooltips already and most user know how to use them. Microsoft don't use icons with text anymore in Vista and OSX use it only in a few apps (and definitely not in Finder). Only GNOME still use "text under icons" by default, but also, not everywher. It's probably the worst nightmare to start KDE4 for the 1st time and see konqueror (working as file manager) with text under icons. Please, I beg you KDE4 developers, don't do it! I generally like it, but there are some elements that need some improvements:
1. I also don’t like this old stylish diskette metaphor for “save” actions. I think that Tango Project have better metaphor for this action: check http://tinyurl.com/yh7n7t
2. Inbox and outbox are too similar; specially in the small size
3. Why are we still using this ugly “X” icon for “move to trash” and “delete” action? It’s ugly and simple not intuitive. I just never know if this icon will move my files/messages etc. to trash or delete them. “Trash” and something similar to this: http://tinyurl.com/y5koek would be far better
4. Scissors and clipboard are too dark. What about people who prefer dark colors for their desktops? Maybe it would be better to have scissors with red/green/blue handle and silver blade and something close to #D75B1E for clipboard?
5. I have absolutely no idea what action stand behind this weird icon between clipboard and encrypted icons. And I think I’m not the only one, so make it better, please.
6. Action icon for clear the text field is IMHO too shiny

And something a little off topic:
Shyru: what do you mean that “text under icons” would be default for KDE4? If icons need signs, it simple means that those icons just ain’t good enough. Adding text under icons in default configuration it’s IMHO very bad idea. And if someone need a clue, we have tooltips already and most user know how to use them.
Microsoft don’t use icons with text anymore in Vista and OSX use it only in a few apps (and definitely not in Finder). Only GNOME still use “text under icons” by default, but also, not everywher. It’s probably the worst nightmare to start KDE4 for the 1st time and see konqueror (working as file manager) with text under icons. Please, I beg you KDE4 developers, don’t do it!

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